I'm ready for someone to say something nasty, not critical then followed by a "but I understand" kind of thing. I'm talking mean, spit in your eye, talk about your mama, pistol whip, kind of nasty. Name names! How about a drunken artist fight? I bet I could get Morrison to be in one corner. Who wants to go toe to toe?
We're all too nice.
Scott Allen posted a critical comment about the portent show, but then he wouldn't back up his words, then he almost apologized for making them, then he said he didn't like one person's work, but the rest was good. He should have stood behind his comments. He should have explained why he didn't like that particular artist work.
If you're going to criticize a show, explain why, then stand behind it. It's fine to tell a couple of friends on the way home that you didn't like the show, but don't blog about it.
Moreover, I would like to take Steve and Mark's comments to task.
I don't apologize for the portent show. I think it was the best show in this town in a while. And I don't think we were misleading anyone with the idea of really good things to come (portent). I also happen to think that I'm a damn good artist and I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise. The same goes for Mark and Steve and the rest of the Beaver/Pedestrian crew.
The line has been drawn in the sand. Who's stepping over it?
KP
Kurt, I realized I didn't want to continue saying anything in disrespect about the show. As an artist, I wouldn't want someone bashing my work in public, so I stopped the negative stride.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, you are the artist that I had issues with. Maybe its a lack of understanding of your work, maybe its the overrated statement about this is the future of art in jacksonville, maybe its both. The craftmanship, high-price tag, scribbled truck, non-working lcd screen (might have worked earlier), really deterred me from your work. I told Byron, that I took the "future art of jax" thing personally and being such a bold statement expected more of a revolutionary show. I have two other blogs about my art (check my profile) if you want to give me some criticism, I don't mind.
I dont know about outright nastiness but I am all for truthfulness and sincerity. I know coming from teaching art and, before that, being an art school student (where crits can be as nasty as all get out), the participants have to come from a similar point of view for it to be effective. Not that something couldnt come out of it (at the very least it would be fun), but imagine a performance artist getting critiqued by someone who has never seen performance art or never even read about it in a book or art mag? How could it work? Tho, yes, it may be fun a fun exercise.
ReplyDeleteSO I am all for people being straight up BUT i also know that there are 3 maybe 4 people in this area I can be straight up with and not hurt feelings and ruin a friendship and YOU are one of them Kurt.
For example, reading Scott's opinion above about Kurt's work makes me wonder what he would think knowing of Martin Kippenburger's work AND knowing the fact that Kurt has studied that work and was influenced? Not that knowing that is absolutely key to getting Kurt's work but its important.
ReplyDeletePlus i know a great deal about Kurt's total body of work since at least 2000, so that type knowledge informs opinions perhaps more effectively than not knowing of it.
I meant to say that Kurts idea to open the flood gates could be dangerously fun AND educational.
ReplyDeleteNot to be ignorant about the subject, but I would like to hear what the "future of Jax" may be. Being one that comes from the commercial world of creativity, I know what is needed to dial that in, but to be a truthfully respected "city of the arts" (or whatever the apropos tag may be), what does it take? Also, it seems to be a very subjective thing anyways that no one would ever agree on...
ReplyDelete....ergo, one could only posit what the right direction may be and no one viewpoint or concept could be right.
With that being said...I enjoyed the show, although I'm not an avid contemporary art purveyor, so my opinion matters only so much.
I don't understand why saying the show was the future of art in jax was a bad thing. I mean why can't that future include all contemporary work.
ReplyDeleteI believe all we were trying to say is that there are about to be and there are already some great shows happening. And that Pedestrian Projects and The Beaver are going to have some more. If you don't particularly like some of the work then that's fine.
I mean I'm at the point where if there is anything different being shown them I'm all for it. Morrison's slasher movie screening at the Hayden Burn's last night was great for Jax. Anything different and new. That's what we need.
I'm really excited and I do believe that Portent was a sign of things to come. This is exciting right here, just to have a frickin conversation about art. I've been dying to find an avenue to have discussions about contemporary art for years here in Jax. I'm just happy folks can talk freely here. Let's keep this line in the sand drawn. Show the work and then let's openly discuss it. Say it sucks, but then say why. We've got to include the why or we don't learn anything about each other. And isn't that what art is all about. Having that conversation? It is for me anyway.
Kurt, you are correct but nasty (ness) isnt a way to go
ReplyDeletethat is what has gotten us where we are unfortunately
and fortunately. i feel that there are many great thigns to come. its a blank canvas really. but after 15 years of being involved with watching this "scene" grow, i must say its never been better, more ripe for something important to happen. jax is now 25th top art city in the nation and really what is going on here? not much................but we are a great hub
6 hrs from miami, 6 from atlanta, 9? from new orleans, 6 from charlotte
and 2 from savannah............the list goes on
but we are a HUB, its time we start acting like that, being confident, supporting each others good work, criticizing the weak, having the discussion in order to grow
this conversation is important. without controversy or conversation no one grows
without someone doing something no one grows
i remember when kurt saw alice neel's work and larry rivers for the first time, you would have thought he had met God. His studio was filled with hundreds of canvases. he couldnt get enough. he couldnt paint enough and at that time, people couldnt buy enough of it
that is where the rubber meets the road
I think what's going on here is healthy. I think it is safe to say I didn't get it or I didn't like it and I think it is safe to say 'I've known your work for a decade and I don't think this current series is successful.'
ReplyDelete(Kurt, not implying you, just example. The last time I saw your work was in Spiller-Vincenty.)
I think by doing so, it opens the correct dialogue for all of us to discuss art more and even offer practice at explaining our own art more. Some may say that you don't need to explain art but we all know that every aspect of anything we've made has very specific reason to it.
So if we're not tough on each other now we'll be spit out in a bigger arena later.
Just a bit of context as to where my latest works have come from... I began working on these pieces as a reaction to some of the large-scale paintings I had been working on over the last few years. After working on those, I wanted to revist other scales, proportions, etc. I had also been reading a lot of art theory and criticism. All of these words (major art talk overload) made me want to clear my head and put pencil to paper.
ReplyDeleteWhen I challenged people to be "nastier" that was a bit tongue-in-cheek, or at least an overstatement. The fact is, there is a room for real-life criticism in these postings (in addition to the much-needed encouragement). In fact, I'd be happy to hear questions, comments, or critiques of my work. This is one reason why I show the work in the first place... to get feedback.
Long live Portent, I said Portent --- damn it.
KP
Thanks Kurt for a little more understanding. The biggest problem I had was with the pencil drawings with the white background. After numerous art teachers focused on composition, focal points, line movement, techniques, harmony, color theory, etc, it made it difficult to appreciate that small collection of your work. Your other work (paintings) is a lot stronger, and good things are happening with the composition, subject matter, and color variations.
ReplyDeleteMark, thanks for the comments, and the Martin Kippenburger reference.
I feel alot better after this discussion, thanks artists.
I know you guys aren't limiting your discussion to professional artists, and that this is a forum for pretty much anyone to talk, yet I feel like I need to say something. I'm a senior in high school, I've gone to DA for the last 3 years, I'm starting to look at colleges...but I know that I don't have experience outside of high school gallery openings and summer programs. My friend Kylie (who is as serious about art as me, as you) and I were at Portent! (early, and left too soon). We want to be involved, we want to be heard... I don't want to be annoying or pushy, but can you guys throw us a bone at DA? I don't know, we're having issues I guess, but I feel like the high school is almost completely isolated from contemporary art in Jacksonville.
ReplyDeleteIf "visiting/resident artist" is too much, at least visit one of our gallery openings. And maybe you have, I'm not accusing you of not (because what do I know, anyway? I'm as green as they come). It's not hot shit until the senior show at the end of the year, but I feel like you all (as our "beacons" of contemporary art) might benefit from touching base with some prominent young artists. If we recognize the growing scene, we might stay, come back, make it stronger. Just something to consider.
Kelly,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be taking the right course of action already. If you want, you can send some images of your work along with a statement to the gallery and we'll look at them. One of the ideas of the space is to help the community, especially young artist. We talked earlier about opening up the space on Saturdays if you wanted to drop the images off then I'm sure that would be fine. I feel pretty comfortable giving some advice and Mark probably won't mind.
The one thing I can tell you is to keep your mind open. The best contemporary art going on today is all about the concept. Don't limit yourself to just painting or drawing.
Kurt
Never in my life have I imagined limiting myself to painting and drawing, rest assured. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you.
Kelly,
ReplyDeleteI want to commend you on at the very least attempting to become more involved in what is going on here, while still being in high school. As a high school art teacher myself, I know how difficult it can be to get students to engage the art community. Kudos.
I would also like to say that the only reason why I have not attended an event having to do with high school students, including DA is because I do not find out about them. I would suggest posting that kind of info on a public forum such as JaxCAL and I am sure you will get people there (myself included). I would love to attend.
And as Kurt mentioned feel free to drop by on a Saturday to Pedestrian and one of us can look at your work, etc.
I'll post our gallery dates when I know about them. The first isn't the students' art, it's a show for Sarah Crooks Flaire (I believe is the name, but easily could be wrong). I have a friend interested in collaborating, and as soon as we come up with some stuff more representative of ourselves (you don't want to exhibit graphite still life drawings and neither do we), we'll be right over.
ReplyDeleteIf i am not teaching that night I will definitely attend your next student show! And i second everything Kurt and Brittni said. I wish I saw as much interest and effort in my college students!
ReplyDeleteI know Kurt offered sound advice and says i would do the same if asked, and i would. But I want you to know that i would value your opinions as well. I think we can all learn from each other
Well it was interesting to read this blog. Whether nasty or not I'm not sure.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't able to attend this show Portent I said Portent. But I understand by establishing a group show of artists who are emerging talent and developing is a good way to start a stride for other art shows in the city.
I can't stress how it's important to keep this energy up, weathered through criticism.
I personally could care less about people criticizing things, I mean does an artist really do things to
be accepted or is he trying to create something besides it's acceptability.
All academic art should be left where that's located. College and grad school. Everyone will be doing similar things and not even doing what they are meant to do when they follow books and teachers.
It's not interesting and it's boring. All the interesting professional terminologies are kind of unimportant once you've gotten to the point your building your own body of work. The key here is that it's your Own body of work.
Does it show that your really thinking or not? know the faults of you're own work or deny that there are faults. Just be cohesive and have a meaning and reason for it.
Nothing is ever perfect or it could be looked over.
What are you making out of yourself and your surroundings? What have you developed out of your knowledge? that's more interesting I think than spouting off things you've heard from all fifteen college professors you have. Do you realize they are all specialists, usually copying a rut practice of sentimentalisms that are usually outdated and really incomprehensibly unconscience of the world around them? Times have changed from the 80's and the 90's.
We're dealing with a whole new world of different issues. Until the artists are dealing with these issues They won't get headlines.
Things have been difficult for me the past few months but I'm getting back on my feet. I'm going to be trying to purchase more works from local artists that I believe in, while making bigger plans for a group show next year.
I want it to be big. I want the presentation to smack an audience in the face and I want it to be tactile, felt, thought out to the bone, unique source of craftmanship. Themes are relatively unimportant but I think they give artists a sense of purpose for a series of work. That's about all I think of subject matter.
Things are changing for the better.
I hope everyone has a good week in their studios!
Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.
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